Welcome Guest Login or Signup
The Collectible Game Player Community
MY ACCOUNT -:- BLOGS -:- USERS -:- GALLERY -:- FORUM -:- GROUPS -:- POLLS -:- QUIZZES
midi2304
PROFILE   GALLERY   BLOGS   GUESTBOOK   FRIENDS   FAVORITES  
 


RSS
Ballots...
Posted On: 08/22/2007 07:05:21

I've always wanted to be a Magic Pro Player. It's never a goal I considered realistic - something along the lines of owning a Ferrari or dating the entire female cast of the OC. Ok, maybe not quite as extreme as those - there's always the outside chance that I qual for a PT and then ace it, but it's pretty unlikely. And yet I always dreamt that one day I might get to join the elite...


Until this week.


Before we go any further, I am going to quite clearly specify that Pro Magic Players are like any other group of people - there are always exceptions to the rule, you can't generalise an entire group, etc. But I'm going to generalise anyway. Why? Because the Pro Player community has come across as a bunch of arrogant, self-absorbed morons over the Invitational and various ballots. What I am going to go over has been covered by others in the last week or so such as Riki here on his blog and Rich Hagon on SCG but I really needed to put my perspective on things - I feel incredibly strongly about this but wanted to take some time before getting all my thoughts down here on my blog rationally.


Firstly, we have Rich Hoaen not included in the Limited Genius ballot. Now this is, at best, a gross oversight on Wizards part. But, at this point, Rich has a good chance of getting in on one of the other ballots. Rich has a reputation for being one of the less 'happy' members of the Tour. Whether this is true or not, it's the perception that the general Magic populus has and one SCG (and therefore one would presume Rich himself) were happy to promote.


Within a couple of weeks of this slight, 'Drafting with Rich' finishes on SCG and Kenji takes over. Now I am not aware of the circumstances in which he stopped writing for SCG (and if anyone could clarify this for me, I'd be very much grateful). So the situation stands that Rich is omitted from the Limited Genius ballot and almost immediately ends his writing column. Coincidence ftw? Seriously, you get to play a card game for a living - hundreds of thousands of people would love to take your place - stop spitting the dummy because you didn't get your way.


Then we have the Storyteller ballot. Amongst the non-Pro Magic playing community (I'm not going to say Casual here - I wouldn't classify myself as a Casual player, rather an enthuiast with lofty dreams of greatness) this announcement was greeted with with open-arms. The thought of one of 'us' (as close as we've gotten so far anyway) playing in the Invitational was great. Someone who would go and stand with the giants of the game and represent the wee guy.


Forsyth has said it raised discussion at Wizards. Reading between the lines, that probably means there were big arguments. But Forsyth won out which says a couple of things to me. Firstly, he is a bloody good guy with a well rounded view of the game and the people who make it the success that it is - i.e. not the Pros. And secondly, he has the debating capabilities and punch required to take his ideas and make them happen, in the face of obvious opposition. It's good that we have someone in Renton in that position.


Anyways, how did the Pros respond to the Storyteller ballot? Did they go 'Oh well, it's only one slot out of 16'? Did they agree that the only reasons the Pros exist and have the prestige and chance to travel and earn so much money is because of the multitude of little guys that look up to them? Did they embrace the whole concept with open arms as a chance to bridge the great divide between us and them?


No, they didn't. They (or at least their most vocal representatives) were morons. I'm not going to go into the specifics of what was said on the various forums because it has been talked to death by other people. The fallout of those discussions is still there for anyone who may be interested to see at places like the Wizards boards. Needless to say, the Pros did not shower themselves in glory and a lot of the work done by people like Craig Jones to try and take us into the world of the professional Magic player has been undone by a vocal minority.


It makes me disappointed that these people do not have due consideration and appreciation for the masses of people who give them their position. And my dream, of one time joining those guys at the top of the game I invest so much of my life to, has diminished slightly.


/rant


-Flame on-


Dave



Bookmark:



Viewing 1 - 5 out of 5 Comments

06/16/2008 10:02:19

As much I like your blogs and such, I am such a newcomer that I, maybe mercifully, missed alot of what is going one with Magic, I am very quickly becoming becoming a fan of the game in the midst of all the things I see, through blogs, going on for some odd reason. this is again a great blog you have written. appreciate you taking the time to do so, for newcomers like me.



08/22/2007 11:22:11

Bennie Smith put it very well today on his SCG article (which I read after writing this blog)...


 I’d like to point out that, as far as I could tell going through the gigantic forum thread, not one single pro came down on the side of Evan or Rizzo getting the nod (though to be fair to the Prof, he came close by basically declaring "let’s wait and see what the voters say"). On the flip side, there did seem to be a good number of people — presumably at least some of them non-pros — who came down in support of Gerard or Prof or some of the others. What does that stark difference reveal? If the pro community wants to bitch about being unfairly villainized, perhaps they should look at their own attitudes and behaviors as contributors to that environment.


So yes, I am gerneralising (and I did mention this in the post) but as you have written in your (very good ) thread precis below, no Pros came out after Mark made his comments and actively chastised him as he undoubtedly desevered. Some (Ruel and Krouner for example) try and bridge the gap but no of them come out against Heezy directly. Hellfire, Anton totally backs him up.


Sometimes silence can say a lot more than a lengthly forum post.


I think your forum post ended up being longer than my initial blog! I am very glad I didn't go at this blog hell-for-leather when I first caught wind of stuff but gave it a few days. My response would have been far more vitriolic and therefore likely less reasoned and rational had I not given myself time to calm down and mull things over a bit.


I think the important thing throughout this whole debacle is that people like me look up to people like Heezy - that's why we vote for him in his ballot. We respect him and the things he has done for the game. For him to then come out with such disparaging remarks about the little man is so so bad. Whether they like it or not, these players have responsibilities. Yes he was only one person (2 if you include Anton) but outside of Prof, where were the Pros telling him that his perspective was wrong and that he should watch what he say lest it be accepted as the point of view of the Pro Player community?


Anyways, thanks for the balanced and thorough blog Riki. I do understand that you have a wider perspective than people like me. But then people must understand that the vast majority of Magic players don't have the priviledge of a point of view like you do. And this must always be taken into consideration.



08/22/2007 10:37:37

I think it was a good idea for you to wait to write about this. I should definitely observe a grace period more often. Living on the borders of Proland and Scrubsylvania, I get to see a lot of both sides of the argument.


Probably the most ironic thing about many of the "All Star" arguments is that I can't recall an All Star Game off the top of my head that actually featured the best players in the game. There is always someone with flash over substance, an aging veteran who is no longer good, or some guy who just happened to put together the best three months of his career in a row. Baseball also has this moronic "one representative per team" rule, and the Kansas City Royals's All Star is usually worse than the sixth or seventh best player on the Yankees.


I've come to the conclusion that it is useless to talk about who is deserving. The All Star game is for the fans, and whoever gets elected by the fans is by definition most deserving. For example, the final Fan Favorite ballot, the two favorites are Shuhei Nakamura and Paulo Vitor. How does one choose between two powerhouses like that? Shuhei by far has the more impressive career, but Paulo is a vocal community leader, both in Brazil and Magic League. The hope is that whichever doesn't get in gets the R&D "safety" pick.


Regarding the "snobby" Pros. I really think that you should call them out by name and not generalize because it's unfair to the many voices of reason that appeared in that thread. In the spirit of fairness, I decided to chronicle and summarize the posts from identifiable pros and non-pro known personalities.


Riki Hayashi (me!)- Joke post copy/pasting Hoaen's Limited Expert rant. Supports Evan Erwin.


Eli Kaplan (SCG writer)- Values innovation (Erwin), admitting that he may not be the best "teller of tales."


Bennie Smith (SCG and former mtg.com writer)- Supports Erwin and Rizzo, voted for the latter as an old time colleague.


Olivier Ruel (Pro, suspended for bad shuffling technique)- Voted Gerard Fabiano, but wanted to change to Sanchez after watching his video.


Jelger Wiegersma (Pro, Player's Pick)- Fabiano.


Antonino DeRosa (former US Champ, multi GP winner)- Gabiano.


Ben Lundquist (2006 US National Team Member)- Fabiano. Calls Erwin "Ervin Gurza."


Osyp Lebedowicz (Pro, PT winner)- Fabiano. Feels the ballot was fixed to send Erwin to the Invitational.


Luis Scott-Vargas (Pro, US Champ)- "I have to say that anyone who doesn't vote for Gerard just has no idea how funny he can be." True. We don't, so we didn't.


Ken Krouner (SCG writer)- Jeff Cunningham.


Terry Tsang (? Pro? Sounds familar)- Fabiano.


Ruud Warmenhoven (pro)- Fabiano.


Frank Karsten (Pro, mtg.com writer)- Fabiano.


Gabe Walls (Pro)- "


correction not that he wont win a match, but that he will finish dead last....I mean can you imagine watching KENJI TSUMURA OR MARK HERBERHOLZ vs EVAN ERWIN come on.....nothing personal against evan but seriously this is supposed to be prestigous"

 

(P.S. I have a bet with a friend that Erwin will not finish in sole possession of last place.)

 

Mark Herberholz (Pro, PT winner, Price is Right participant, North America Invitee)- "Why did this stop being the magic all star game and now there has been a charity vote for someone who doesnt play an integral part in the most publicized part of magic the gathering, the pro tour?"

 

"anyone can write some articles and post some videos on youtube..."

 

"do you really want to see their names at the bottom of the standings that badly?"

"when i see guys like rizzo, menendian, or erwin on the ballot it makes me sick."

 

Anton Jonsson (Pro)- "I wholeheartedly agree with Heezy. I'd add something but he basically already said it all." Perhaps you should read carefully before subscribing to the particular brand of hate, Anton. 
 

Mark Young (SCG writer)- Fabiano.

 

Gerard Fabiano (Pro)- "I first want to thank everyone who is supporting me, win or lose it is great have this support. To everyone who posted something nice about me, those words are what make me feel good and proud of what I've done for the game. I am not going to say much more cause most people all ready voted. I am always trying to help other magic players out as about 50 other pros would vouch for that. I hope you loved my video, the gabe walls part was a play off of the movie "Donnie Brasco", its the one where they say "fuggahit aboud id.""

Evan Erwin (SCG writer)- Heckles Pros. Really. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13408937&postcount=251)

 

Ends with "Come get you some."

 

Kyle Sanchez (Pro, SCG writer)- Fabiano, and tells Erwin that his post was in bad taste.

 

Tim Aten (Pro, when he feels like it, and SCG and Londes writer, again when he feels like it)- Echoes Sanchez. "You make it harder to root for you when you act all smug, bordering on a sense of entitlement.

I respected you more before you verbalized the "I'm gonna show them big-time pros what for" attitude."

Erwin- Defends himself, mostly against Heezy's allegations of writing not being hard work.

 

Krouner- Also calls out Erwin for his post. Makes intelligent arguments regarding his "All Star" position.

 

Ruel- "And as far as I know, an all star game is an elitist tournament." Which, again, is false. All Star games are exhibitions for the fans.

 

Krouner and Ruel then continue to make some respectful posts with good arguments.

 

Steven Menendian (SCG writer)- writes a novel. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13411045&postcount=282)

 

Fabiano- Calls for peace between both sides.

 

Heezy - "i wrote in my post that dedication to the game was in fact testing night in and night out for ptq's and driving to them every weekend and then at the end i offered an open invitation and an apology to anyone who did this that i did not have knowledge of. apparently that is evan and i applaud him for his dedication to the game which i apparently did not know, if he goes to 8-10 ptq's a season and games 3-4 nights a week testing for said ptq's then yes he fits my criteria. in the future please read my whole post before making yourself look bad, thank you."

"first of all i am not bashing players like you or elevating myself in the sense that i think i am better than everyone, i applaud you for finding time to play the game of magic and going to ptq's whenever you have a chance. all i am saying is that i dont think a player like you deserves to go to the invitational over a player like me who has at one point thrown everything else in his life away for this game. second of all you dont know me so dont even pretend i do care about the up and coming tournament player, in fact i take time out of my days to address anyone who messages me on myspace, facebook, or aim to give them deck advice or just talk simple strategy with them. not to mention the help i give out at various tournaments to literally anyone who walks up and asks. so please in the future dont pretend like you have any idea of the type of person i am and therefore make yourself look ignorant." (We should hold him the bolded. Everone ask him for help!)

In conclusion, Heezy is pretty much the only "arrogant pro." Of course, he was arrogant enough to carry the whole community on his back. Krouner (who is maybe more like a former pro now) and O. Ruel spent a lot of time calmly arguing for their vision of the Invitational and I respect them for that. I think it's very unfair for you to shoehorn all pros for Heezy's bad taste. Most of them voted for Gerard because he is their friend and he tells them funny stories. I can't argue against this logic. It simply doesn't apply to "the rest of us." Evan Erwin tells us all funny stories and I would consider him an online friend. Good enough for them, so good enough for me.


08/22/2007 10:30:15
Mood thing noted. It was one of the few times that one of the actual mood descriptors fitted how I was feeling at the time - disappointed - so i used it. I've edited the blog now to have the 'Magic The Gathering 'mood.


08/22/2007 10:25:52

Interesting post -- While I have seen some anti "storyteller" posts, those posters (as you point out) seem to be in the vast minority.

As an aside - I wish people blogging about a specific game would use the game specific "moods". I usually filter via game "mood" since I couldn't care less about WoW or Pokemon and I would hate to miss an interesting magic post like this one because of that.




*** MyTCGplayer ***