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Vague Rantings #4 R/W Giants in LLM
Posted On 02/05/2008 01:21:18 by Bob_B - Read 847 time(s)

A few days ago I wrote about LLM and talked up Giants as a good archetype.  I had some people disagree with me so I thought I’d put some work into going over the archetype in more detail to better explain my opinion.  I wanted to do a draft walkthrough, but LLM isn’t on MTGO yet and I had to move back into the dorms over this weekend so I didn’t get a chance to do a paper draft.  So I will just go over what cards I think make the archetype so good, why they are so good in this particular format, and a general sort of pick order for the cards, along with a general idea of how the deck will normally play out.  As a disclaimer I will say that some of this is speculation as Morningtide is still very new and this may end losing value as time goes on.

 

Bombs

 

These are the cards that make you want to play this archetype and there are quite a few of them.  A good number of them are in Lorwyn and mostly uncommon so you are likely going to be able to get one of them.  A good number of these are also good in other decks based on sure power level.  So taking them early won’t commit you if the other cards don’t show up.

 

Thundercloud Shaman, well this one is a bit of a no brainer.  He wraths away creatures that aren’t yours, pick him accordingly.

 

Cloudgoat Ranger is often referred to as a mini-dragon and I think that’s a good way to put it.  It’s 6 power for 5 mana and normally wins the game in short order if your

opponent doesn’t have an answer for it.

 

Brion Stoutarm can steal games with all kinds of fatties to throw around.  Not to mention he is also just very solid on his own.

 

Borderland Behemoth gets overlooked by some but if even if you only have one other giant in play he will be worth the 7 mana he costs you.  Keep in mind that if things go well you probably will not be playing retail for this guy, or any guy for that matter, so he will often be an 8/8 trampler for 6. 

 

Feudkiller’s Verdict can be very strong in this archetype.  It is generally pretty lacking in the early game so gaining 10 life is nothing to scoff at and a 5/5 body to go with it is pretty good too.  Don’t forget that Stinkdrinker Daredevil makes this cheaper as well.

 

 These cards along with other non-tribal R/W bombs, R/W commands or Planeswalkers for example, are going to be cards that really make you want to play with giants.  Obviously the ones in Morningtide aren’t going to put you into R/W, but it’s important to know that they should be taken over just about any other card you open.

 

What to look for in Lorwyn.

 

These cards are going to be the bulk of your deck and some of them might surprise you.  For the most part I’ll list them in the order I think you should pick them. I’m also not going to list cards like Lash-Out, Tarfire, and Oblivion Ring as you should already know to pick these cards very high.

 

Stinkdrinker Daredevil/Brighthearth Banneret are very important to making your deck a powerhouse.  Not getting them won’t be the end of the world because the threats you play will be powerful enough to make up for falling behind most of them time, but these guys will keep you in the game and can make for some just stupid starts.  You should take Stinkdrinkers before you start taking other giant cards, like Axegrinder and Hearthcage Giant, but not over things like bombs or removal.  The reason is that most of the solid fatties will table, but these guys will not.  If you have 2 of them in your pile already it’s probably ok to let them pass, but you really will at least 3-4 of these 2 cards total.  The more you have the more often you will get your fast starts.  The Banneret has the added bonus of not being dead when you draw it later in the game.

 

Avian Changeling does a lot of things for you.  It turns on Kithkin Greatheart, can slow down an aerial assault, or just lay down some beats.  It’s also just a very flexible card so it doesn’t lock you in should the other cards not show up.

 

Goldmeadow Harrier is a great card for keeping you in the game when you have slower draws.  This probably isn’t much of a surprise.

 

Giant Harbinger isn’t a great threat in and of itself, but it will tutor up a lot of game winning cards.  Again not much of a surprise, but something you’ll want a copy of.

 

Axe-Grinder Giant is what this deck is all about, big threats that you can get out quickly and put on lots of pressure.  If you can get this guy out on turn 4 or 5 he will really be a beating.  He may not be the most exciting card around, but he will demand an answer from your opponent.

 

Hearthcage Giant does the same job as Axe-Grinder, but gets picked lower because he cost more and tends to wheel more often in my experience.  He does bring 11 power to the table, though, so don’t think he won’t be game changing.

 

Kithkin Greatheart gives you some early game while getting better later on, nothing surprising just a very solid pick.

 

Fire Belly Chaneling does all the same things that Avian Changeling does, but for obvious reasons isn’t as good.

 

Crush Underfoot will often be able to get the best creature your opponent has on the board for at the low, low price of 2 mana. Even less if you have a Daredevil in play.

 

Neck Snap is a pretty poor removal spell compared to some of the others, but having one copy of it can make games 2 and 3 easier for you as people tend to play around it if they know you have it.  As it’s normally pretty obvious when you do have and I will often side them out if I have any kind of playable card to replace them once my opponent knows I have them.  Maybe that’s wrong, but it’s won me a few drafts so I thought I’d share it with you.

 

Kinsbaile Balloonist can throw your fatties into the air.  Not the ideal card to be playing on turn 4, but he can make your threats even more, well, threatening, and does a good job of making your deck competitive when you miss out on “familiars”

 

Giant’s Ire might be belong either one spot up or one down I’m not sure, but Daredevil makes it cheaper and it will likely draw you a card so if nothing else it will be a good sideboard option against some decks.

 

Hillcomber Giant cost double white and you’ll want to be heavy into Red so trying to get WW for just a 3/3 isn’t that great.  That said he is a Giant and still turns on your Greathearts and things.

 

Cards to look for in Morningtide

 

Swell of Courage is an absolute bomb.  In fact I probably should’ve listed it with the other bombs, but I didn’t so I’ll list it here.  Don’t let that mana cost in the upper right hand corner fool you this card cost XWW and just great at stealing games.

 

Brighthearth Banneret I listed this above with the Daredevil, but I thought I’d list it again here so you know where I think it stands in the pick order.  This guy is really what makes this deck so good.  It allows you to consistently get a hold of enough familiars to be able to see at least one of them each game.  This guy is also a combat trick, and if you have one in play a really cheap combat trick to boot.

 

Taurean Mauler is just a good creature for a red deck or any deck for that matter.  I don’t think it’s better than Swell or the Banneret, for this archetype, but it is very good and could very well be game winning from time to time.

 

Countryside Crusher is probably better than the Mauler, but you’ll probably never have to make that pick so I wouldn’t worry about it.  That aside this card will win you games if played at the right time.  If you manage to get this down along side another threat you can reasonably expect the game to be yours.

 

Obsidian Battle-Axe has been called the new Fires of Yavamaya and that’s a pretty good descriptions.  This just makes a lot of your threats insane and can will probably be one of the best cards in your deck.

 

Spitebellows should be treated mostly as a removal spell and not as a creature.  It’s a very efficiently costed 6 damage.  Also don’t forget that if you have Hearthcage Giant in play and you evoke this you can sack it to the Giant to pump with the triggers on the stack. 

 

Rivals Duel is a card I think could be good in this deck.  At worst it will be a more expensive copy of Crush Underfoot at best it will eat two of your opponent’s dooders. 

 

War-Spike and Changeling Sentential cost the same have the same power and there is really very little difference between them.  They aren’t great creatures over all but the can do a lot of work because of being Changelings so look to them to fill in holes and pick up the creature count if you are a little low.

 

Interesting sideboard options

 

Release the Ants seems like it could be pretty strong because of the tendency for this deck to have a higher curve. It might not be game breaking, but might be able to get in 2-3 damage near the end of the game when you have a lot of extra mana open.  It also seems good with the Crusher, but this might just be unrealistic optimism spurred by my fondness of the art on this card.

 

Boldwyr Heavyweights are in general kind of poopers, but then I got to thinking about them in limited and thought of Hunted Wumpus.  With the Wumpus it was ok to play it because it was unlikely that anything it brought with it would be better or even as good as the Wumpus.  While the Heavyweights should never make your main deck, ask yourself if your opponent can get anything that is so good it can deal with an 8/8 trampler.  Chances are good that some decks won’t have anything that is going to be as good the Heavyweights.  Just something to think about while you’re shuffling up after game one.

 

Pyroclast Consul might be good if you can get enough Changelings to make it trigger a few times.  It’s not likely to kill any of your threats and will clear the way for them to finish things up.

 

Final Thoughts

 

This deck has a lot going for it.  A lot of the cards it wants most other decks don’t.  The top picks are flexible enough to let you move into other archetypes if the giants don’t show, and frankly the power this deck can be considerably high.  It is often packed with threat after threat.  I don’t know who said it but I’m sure I’m not the only one who has heard the adage “There are no bad threats, only bad answers” and that’s what this deck does throw down threat after threat that demand answers.  I’ll try to get a draft walkthrough and some match reports up to show case this deck in action.  As always if you have anything to add or questions for me feel free to ask. Until next time

 

- Bob

Tags: Limited

Related to: Magic: the Gathering



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Viewing 1 - 5 out of 5 Comments

02/07/2008 15:54:48
Another card you didn't mention is Feudkillers verdict. Although it has WW in its casting cost it is a major game swinger (10 life and a 5/5 giant).It's not a card u can reasonably see everytime you draft giants, but is a bomb nonetheless.


02/06/2008 12:58:27
Good points about the bannerets. All the ones I've played so far have played well. I'm not sure a 4/4 for 5 with occasional lifegain attached can be considered "really strong," but white as a whole is very strong in morningtide limited. No one can deny that. A W/R deck with a few giants at the high end is probably quite playable but the giants would most likely be an accent to the deck rather than its focus.


02/06/2008 01:17:11

I think you guys aren't giving the Bannerets enough credit.  I know they don't make your dudes cost as much less as a Daredevil but getting those fatties even for 1 less mana is good, and I really don't think you'll be fighting too many others at the table for Bannerets in the same color as you.  Normally the people playing the same color as you are sitting a few seats away so getting a hold of them won't be impossible.

 

Also I should appologize as I sort of rushed this one a little.  It was late and I was a bit over excited about finishing it up so I missed a few cards.  Wandering Greybeard is a really strong uncommon.  As is Reedem the Lost.  White also brings you cards like Cordinated Barrage and Burrenton Bombardier as really strong combat tricks.  I should've talked more about these, but I try to be more careful next time.

 

Lastly I want to say that I realize the number of good Giants in Morningtide is pretty much zero at the common spot.  In fact if I remember correctly only Lunk Errant chimes in and it's not very good, but you can easily pick up all of your giants in the Lorwyn packs with out much problem.  Morningtide just brings it's crazy good stock of white cards and the Bannerets as cards you'll really want, and the best thing about this deck is that all of its top Lorwyn picks will be good if the Giants or Daredevils don't show up so taking them with this archetype in mind isn't going to hurt you very much. 



02/05/2008 16:14:10
I loved RW giant in just Lorwyn, but just look at your comments. You list only rare giants in morningtide as Bombs or good picks. Thats because there aren't any other ones worth playing. Losing a packs worth of Stinkdrinkers in exchange for bannerets is a bad deal, and others will be fighting you for the bannerets as well. Assuming you lucked into several of the bomb rare giants you certainly still could make a good deck but losing the additional opportunities to grab the key uncommon giants in LOR simply hurts this archetype too much.


02/05/2008 12:53:11
I'm still quite dubious of giants but they're interesting thoughts. I still think that giants just get so little in Morningtide as to be very difficult to build. Also what do you think about RG giants? I think making a warriors deck with giants at the top makes more sense than trying to go pure giants.




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